(no subject)

[timelets]

Speaking of Singapore, if one wants to be more or less safe during the coronavirus event, moving to Singapore would be one of the best options.

Also, I wonder whether states of California and Washington could use health emergency laws to deal with the homelessness problem. Obviously, you don't want to have people living in anti-sanitary conditions while there's an imminent threat of a major viral pandemic in a densely populated urban area.

Comments

[lm644]

How would it work in practice - dealing with homeless?

Sorry, I know nothing about the health emergency law and it’s powers...

[timelets]

I don't know for sure; this is just an idea. From what I know, in a health emergency the authorities have rights to remove/isolate a clear health hazard. More importantly, it'll be politically palatable even for many liberals to accept and deal with the idea that defecation on the street is a major public health problem when, e.g. the coronavirus spreads through the fecal route.

[lm644]

Remove and isolate - where? Jails? Concentration camps?

I understand how annoying homeless population is but... would you really support something like this?

[timelets]

There are clean housing facilities where they can stay for a limited period of time. The alternative would be to let them die on the streets from the infection.

[lm644]

Like where? I always thought the problem with homeless is that municipalities DO NOT have adequate housing facilities - do you know something I don’t?

[timelets]

Large municipalities do have some facilities, but they are relatively small, difficult to get and not centrally located. Emergency funds would allow building more of such facilities and keeping people there until the threat of the pandemic subsides. This is not ideal, but with the imminent arrival of the virus into our cities the alternative is literally death.

[lm644]

The problem with the existing facilities is that they are overcrowded, unsanitary, and unsafe. I don’t think “keeping” people there is going to do them any good.

You see, when there is a hurricane evacuation, the police comes to your door and asks you to leave. They cannot drag you out, though, pack into their car, and take you away. I know, I know, people who decide to stay are stupid, the government spends tons of money rescuing them when hurricane comes... but still, this is what personal liberty means: being free to make even stupid decision, as long as there is no crime committed.

[timelets]

free to make even stupid decision, as long as there is no crime committed.

Do you see that a group of homeless people living on the streets during a coronovirus pandemic creates a significant health risk for an entire city?

[lm644]

I think I am at much higher risk from crowded metro trains and buses, long lines at lunch places, packed office buildings, and the inadequate healthcare system. Homeless sleeping on the sidewalk are the least of my worries.

[timelets]

I agree. The reality of large cities on the East Coast is different from California and Washington state where homelessness continues to grow. It's no longer about individuals sleeping on the sidewalk. Rather, it's about tent camps in the middle of a city or an urban area — without toilets, water, showers or any kind of sanitary arrangements.

[lm644]

Don’t know about the rest of the East Cost but in our merry capital city the situation is very similar to what you describe: tents everywhere, camps along the Rock Creek, few steps from the Kennedy Center, under the K Street bridge, and everywhere...

Still, this is a parallel universe... sad - but their misery does not impact our daily lives. I am sure there are plenty of infectious diseases already but they are contained by the social isolation which is a big part of homelessness.

[timelets]

Maybe it's my imagination, but I can see a huge backlash against homeless after a couple of confirmed coronavirus deaths in one of those camps. It might get really ugly.

[lm644]

It will depend on how the media spin it. Naming the victims is not customary, providing their home addresses or any personal info - even less so. I don’t think people will get blamed for getting sick; nor should they. At the same time, public health officials will have to quarantine everybody in contact with the infected people, so the responsibility will be really on them, not on the homeless population. Here we finish the full circle and come back to the fact that municipalities do not have adequate facilities to quarantine a large number of people. They don’t have the authority to preventively arrest and jail people who did not commit any crime either. This is America, after all, not the late USSR.